[Meeni]

Originally Posted by Ramos

Seriously !!
310 Hp from 1.6 liters!! You are aware that the highest specific output currently on a production car is the Porsche GT2 RS (163 BHp / liter)

How about 400 BHp from a 1.5 liter 3 cylinder? Why not stop there? I want mine with 1000 Hp from a 1.0 liter 2 cylinder motor !

190hp/L is what current motorcycles are pushing out, from naturally aspirated engines. So it is possible, somehow.

Actually that would be fun to have a small car with the RR engine

[Ramos]

I'm pretty sure no one wants a motorcycle engine that offers no torque under 10k RPM

Back on topic please

[Tåst]

Originally Posted by Ramos

Seriously !!
310 Hp from 1.6 liters!! You are aware that the highest specific output currently on a production car is the Porsche GT2 RS (163 BHp / liter)

How about 400 BHp from a 1.5 liter 3 cylinder? Why not stop there? I want mine with 1000 Hp from a 1.0 liter 2 cylinder motor !

I´am not kidding, it´s turbocharged engine not naturally aspirated, specs has taken Bmw 1.6L Motorsport engine, used WRC Mini and 320TC. Usually same block used road cars (M10, N45 and M42)

But same power has taken on road cars. Mitsubishi build Evo 10 FQ400 which has 2L engine and 200bhp/liter. Only UK markets.

[bimmerjph]

Originally Posted by Meeni

190hp/L is what current motorcycles are pushing out, from naturally aspirated engines. So it is possible, somehow.

Actually that would be fun to have a small car with the RR engine

And how much torque do they have??? Not much.

[BMW269]

From what I know there are two engine possibilities for M2:

- 3.0l I6 based on N55 making 370 PS

and

- 2.2l I4 based on S63 making 370 PS with 8.000 RPM redline

[bimmerjph]

Originally Posted by Levi

From what I know there are two engine possibilities for M2:

- 3.0l I6 based on N55 making 370 PS

and

- 2.2l I4 based on S63 making 370 PS with 8.000 RPM redline

Where have you read about the S63 being cut in half? I haven't heard about that.

That being said, it would be my preference.

[Tåst]

I think there isn´t anything benefit to take S63 block and cut it, cylinders are one piece(if they not wan´t make V4). More easily and plausible is that it using N20-engine block, long stroke low revving 2.0L-2.2L, or short high revving 1.6L.

[Inge_F]

Originally Posted by Ramos

Seriously !!
310 Hp from 1.6 liters!! You are aware that the highest specific output currently on a production car is the Porsche GT2 RS (163 BHp / liter)

How about 400 BHp from a 1.5 liter 3 cylinder? Why not stop there? I want mine with 1000 Hp from a 1.0 liter 2 cylinder motor !

Why not? The BMW M10 based 1,5ltr engine from the BMW 1500/1502 used in Brabham F1 cars in the 80`s pumped out 1400hp.
The engine was renamed M12/13, equipet with TC and the 1400hp output were on qualifying-map, but the actual cyl-block were taken from used M10-engines.
Offcourse, the engine ran on racingfuel, but still.

There`s some hp/ltr.-figure for you!

[Ramos]

Update on poll results

With a more representative sample size of 46 respondents. here is what we know:
The results have taken a dramatic shift in favor of the I6 as the engine of choice for the M2

• 80.5 % overall prefer the I6
• A whopping 50% of respondents see the potential of an I4 as a deal breaker

Hopefully BMW is listening

[Ramos]

Originally Posted by Inge_F

Why not? The BMW M10 based 1,5ltr engine from the BMW 1500/1502 used in Brabham F1 cars in the 80`s pumped out 1400hp.
The engine was renamed M12/13, equipet with TC and the 1400hp output were on qualifying-map, but the actual cyl-block were taken from used M10-engines.
Offcourse, the engine ran on racingfuel, but still.

There`s some hp/ltr.-figure for you!

Think those race engines can go 15K miles between oil changes?

[Inge_F]

Originally Posted by Ramos

Think those race engines can go 15K miles between oil changes?

Quick answer for that is no.
But then again, I think 15K between oil change is to much on any M-engine.
That will always depend on the use though.

Anyway, those above-mentioned engines were considered "over engineered" if they lasted much more then one race, (200 miles). But of course, F1 racing is a bit harder life for an engine than most M-engines have to put up with

Point is, what was possible in racing from the 80`s is often possible in to days
production cars. Going for 1000hp/ltr might be a little high though

[Tåst]

M12/13 maybe most powerfullest combustion engine measured by litre/per. hp?

They actually not know what is peak power, because dyno not went up to 1400hp, maybe ~1450hp, when maxium boost pressure was 5.6bar absolute.

In race they ran only 1000hp setups.

[Ramos]

The results of this poll are no where near as close as I thought they would be.
Those who favor an I4 are a tiny minority of an enthusiast community. I would bet that they are even a smaller minority of the larger BMW buying population.

I am pretty certain that BMW's own market research would have come to the same conclusion... A 4 cylinder is simple marketing suicide for the M2, I think BMW is way smarter than that and will be fitting this car with a 350-370 HP Inline 6 / 3.0 liter Bi-Turbo (evolution of the N54 rather than an evolution of the N55)

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by Ramos

The results of this poll are no where near as close as I thought they would be.
Those who favor an I4 are a tiny minority of an enthusiast community. I would bet that they are even a smaller minority of the larger BMW buying population.

I am pretty certain that BMW's own market research would have come to the same conclusion... A 4 cylinder is simple marketing suicide for the M2, I think BMW is way smarter than that and will be fitting this car with a 350-370 HP Inline 6 / 3.0 liter Bi-Turbo (evolution of the N54 rather than an evolution of the N55)

Having worked in Germany and having plenty of friends in different countries, I think this is an extremely US-centric view. I realize we make up a good amount of total BMW sales, but I suspect that if this poll were more global, you'd see a closer balance in preference. I don't see the I4 winning in many cases, but I can see the number of folks not blindly favoring the bigger engine skewing way downward.

I also think that the market differentiation of having a relatively cushy, torquey M3/M4 and a more raw, peaky and challenging M2 would make more sense than having essentially two slices of the same pie. But then I'm not making these calls, and M has certainly changed a lot since the days of the E30 M3, so who knows what we'll actually see.

[ozinaldo]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Having worked in Germany and having plenty of friends in different countries, I think this is an extremely US-centric view. I realize we make up a good amount of total BMW sales, but I suspect that if this poll were more global, you'd see a closer balance in preference. I don't see the I4 winning in many cases, but I can see the number of folks not blindly favoring the bigger engine skewing way downward.

I also think that the market differentiation of having a relatively cushy, torquey M3/M4 and a more raw, peaky and challenging M2 would make more sense than having essentially two slices of the same pie. But then I'm not making these calls, and M has certainly changed a lot since the days of the E30 M3, so who knows what we'll actually see.

+1. Also, real competition for the next M2 will be likes of: 2014 Alfa 4C, 2013 Mercedes A45 AMG, next Audi RS3 and to a certain extend next Golf/Scirocco R twins. They will all have potent 4 cylinder engines so maybe as a premier engine manufacturer BMW should take this challenge seriously and instead of giving us another 1M with a new suit or a milder M4, they should actually design something new.

This coming from someone who worships BMW in-line sixes, NA or turbo.

[poosamjam]

Depends on the competition. The M235i has 315 hp i6 and the new M3/4 will have an i6 415 hp/395ft ib. The M2 will have to be between somewhere around an i6 360 hp. We also have to look at what Audi and Merc is making. The CLA 45 amg and audi rs3 are going to compete against the M235i or M2?

[benzosnenzos]

N54 with upgrades including:

Larger turbos, better exhaust, less weight (round 3100lbs is ok), some internal mumbo jumbo, and a bunch of other cool stuff. However, if they decide to go with 4 cyl. and if then can make a monster that makes sense, why not!?!?

I'm guessing the M2 will be a limited production model since the whole 4 and 3 series issue is already a mind fuck to the masses and we have already seen how sad and short lived the 1-series is becoming. Regardless of that debacle, this may be and only a test to future ///M products. It's all marketing. I have a stock 135i, and whoever has tested the capabilities of this car knows that "the shit is real." I have an m1 motor and essentially I could "hater hurtt" those in denial.

What I'm getting at is all the cars BMW mow makes are not being put to their potential and BMW is only adding similar mods that we have an option to do, but "under warranty," to make the cars faster.

What I am getting at is BMW is too smart for their own good. Confusing the masses is the only way to keep a brand selling their goods to us motor heads who are set in our ways! Lets say TT i6 @380bhp or i4 + hybrid engine 370! I'm buying.

[richardg]

I am sure the 4 would be just fine, but the solid truth is that I am too stubborn and ignorant to let go of those two extra cylinders. Especially for that price (likely 50k +). Not to mention I would assume that the 235i would end up having more tuning potential than a four cyl M2. I think from a marketing standpoint it would really have to be done perfectly to sell this car with only 4 cylinders.

[richardg]

Oh and personally I would guess BMW would be better off putting a 4cyl in both the 228i/35i and make the 4cyl have a 300hp output on the 235i. Save the 6 for the M2. I assume that would actually be cheaper for BMW to do since the normal 2 will be higher volume anyway.

[Kornmuse]

Remember the M3 E30 4cyl, the car still an incredible car...

GreG

[Wollner]

Love the N55 in my E88
Boost that up to 340hp

[OverDriven]

Of course people will SAY they prefer the 6 over the 4 and of course people will SAY that a 4 cylinder will be a deal breaker. Neither are necessarily rooted in fact. The only thing that will be a deal breaker is if the generated HP and torque do not provide adequate performance. It doesn't matter how BMW goes about creating that power.